Contrails in Holland #2
	march 23-2005, holland
	SPECS:	[Post #3279] - [Type: pictures] - [Category: trippy]
	SUBMIT:	[By Ralf] - [On 2005-03-23 02:56:45]
	STATS:	[Viewed 44853 times] - [Rewarded x25] - [Rated 4 times: +10.00]

LAME   COOL

Reward Ralf's post with 1 bananas.

	simpel --> Nice!
	[By Shadow Banner] - [On 2005-03-23 09:32:55] - [Rating: +7 (9x) ] - [Reply]

	kewl pics :)
	[By Darkfiber] - [On 2005-03-23 11:34:11] - [Rating: +5 (7x) ] - [Reply]

	Welcome to NATO, Holland!
	[By Guest 6221] - [On 2005-03-23 21:45:13] - [Rating: +4 (6x) ] - [Reply]

	chemtrails... not contrails :-D
	[By Guest 9361] - [On 2005-03-23 22:21:40] - [Rating: +7 (7x) ] - [Reply]

	i remember flying into amsterdam and witnessing one of the most prolific chemtrail grids being sprayed against the sky that i had ever seen. here in california, the spraying takes place daily and lately it's been accompanied by record amounts of rain. they are gettign incredibly good at manipulating the weather via haarp.
	[By Guest 8714] - [On 2005-03-23 22:44:23] - [Rating: +5 (7x) ] - [Reply]

	what makes you so certain these are chemtrails?? I only see a lot of contrails and Stratocumulusclouds...
	[By Guest 9648] - [On 2005-03-23 22:46:44] - [Rating: +3 (7x) ] - [Reply]

	When you see a 'lot of contrails' that spread out and cause overcast they are surely chemtrails. The pattern on Picture #1 is definitely a chemtrail grid. Some say under certain conditions contrails can spread out and act like this. However you often see chemtrail sprayers and normal contrails in the same sky.Contrails disappear. Chemtrails don't.
	[By Guest 1984] - [On 2005-03-23 23:30:00] - [Rating: +1 (9x) ] - [Reply]

oh blah blah with all this chemtrail stuff... all the photographic speculation in the world isn't going to prove a darn thing... prove it in scientific fashion and then we'll talk. Hint: Take samples at altitude and analyze them. Duh... It really should not be any big deal at all to prove this - it's not the UFO phenomenon we're talking about here! There's supposedly hard proof right above us, according to all the paranoid conspiranuts... and yet no science - REAL science - is ever performed. The 'chemtrail investigation' carried out so far is a prime example of the term 'pseudoscience'. Mix in some group hysteria and the subject is actually quite fascinating - but from a sociological and psychological standpoint, not a scientific one...

[By Guest 4610] - [On 2005-03-24 00:48:22] - [Rating: 0 (8x) ] - [Reply]

		Hey F*cko... this is straight out of wikipedia on barium... Precautions- All water or acid soluble barium compounds are extremely poisonous. At low doses, barium acts as a muscle stimulant, while higher doses affect the nervous system, causing cardiac irregularities, tremors, weakness, anxiety, dyspnea and paralysis. This may be due to its ability to block potassium ion channels which are critical to the proper function of the nervous system. Barium sulfate can be used in medicine only because it does not dissolve, and is eliminated completely from the digestive tract. Unlike other heavy metals, barium does not bioaccumulate. [1] However, inhaled barium dust can accumulate in the lungs, a condition called baritosis. Oxidation occurs very easily and, to remain pure, barium should be kept under a petroleum-based fluid (such as kerosene) or other suitable oxygen-free liquids that exclude air. Sheeple need to wake up from their dream land that hitler didnt exist, come on look at the facts since rome and before... the government has lied to us and kept us as pets, to provide all their things even though were not called slaves doesnt make us Free... go work to line their pockets I'm going to search for information... God help us all especially the retardus amongus sheeple who love being enslaved and watching people try and fight while sitting on their butts trying to disprove, hey why dont you get a plane take samples and prove were wrong... the audacity...
		[By Big Bro] - [On 2006-09-06 05:49:54] - [Rating: +4 (4x) ] - [Reply]

		I’m with you; I have gone to search for information. Here in the U.S. we are one of the biggest producers of bromide (not Barium). It is used mainly for fire retardants in plastics. The effects are similar to that of DDT. Many companies are getting rid of water soluble Bromides because they are afraid of a public back lash; like the one they faced with DDT. This was due to an activist, Rachel Carson, book, 'Silent Spring' book. It is a good example of how corporations do not care.
		[By Guest 44727] - [On 2008-11-01 06:58:19] - [Rating: 0 (0x) ] - [Reply]

	Chemtrails. Bwaaahahahahaha. What a joke.
	[By Guest 6172] - [On 2005-03-24 00:51:17] - [Rating: +8 (8x) ] - [Reply]

	Rise up robots!!! They're trying like hell to kill us!!! www.paoweb.com www.nesara.us www.fourwinds10.com www.treeofthegoldenlight.com
	[By Guest 5024] - [On 2005-03-24 01:01:08] - [Rating: +4 (6x) ] - [Reply]

	a newer pic: [ Goto Post #3289 ]
	[By Guest 3187] - [On 2005-03-24 01:04:33] - [Rating: +5 (7x) ] - [Reply]

In response to the blah blah posts There are plenty of conclusive testing that has been done. The reason why nothing has happened is due to ignorance of the public. Everyone closes their eyes and ears and says there's no evidence. http://www.carnicom.com/ http://www.rense.com/politics6/chemdatapage.html http://rense.com/general30/deby.htm Read it and weep (or stick your head back in the sand) whatever suits you......

[By Guest 2613] - [On 2005-03-24 01:07:04] - [Rating: +4 (6x) ] - [Reply]

	clifford carnicom's chemtrail documentary is quite good....there are govt sites which discuss this, etc. i live in central VA and we are sprayed on an almost daily basis....but i guess i am a cospiracy nut for thinking our govt carried out 911 too....... thomas VA
	[By Guest 2930] - [On 2005-03-24 01:11:55] - [Rating: +1 (7x) ] - [Reply]

I visited holland by ferry from Newcastle upon tyne across the north sea in 1998, when I first noticed chemtrails. All of the time I was in Amsterdam, I saw nothing but normal contrails, from very high flying aircraft, so high they were just dots in the sky leaving trails that evaporated/sublimed within 5 seconds. On the day I left Amsterdam by ferry to return to England, only some 3 or 4 hours out of harbour, I was on the top deck of the ferry taking in the views of the evening just as the sun was setting. The sky at this point was divided into two halves. On the English airspace side of the sky were hundreds ( I am not exaggerating ) of U-turn chemtrails, like no other I had seen before, or have seen since, light brown in colour and totally obscuring the sky above. On the Dutch airspace side was nothing but clear deep blue sky. To this day I regret not being in possesion of a digital camera to record the sight. One can speculate that at the time, chem planes did not have permission to use Dutch airspace. It appears they do now.

[By Guest 5250] - [On 2005-03-24 01:18:36] - [Rating: +4 (6x) ] - [Reply]

	I live near Toronto, Canada. Just yesterday I watched planes crisscrosing the sky. In one particular case the plane began to sputter the trail evidence that it was running out of whatever it was spraying. Seconds later thre was no more trail as it was empty of its contents for spraying.
	[By Guest 2418] - [On 2005-03-24 01:49:07] - [Rating: +3 (5x) ] - [Reply]

I've examined Carnicom before, but just to be able to reply accurately, I took another look at all three links you posted. Read it and weep, huh? LOL What I looked for on those sites there was information on sampling methods, testing methods, etc. Know what I found? NOTHING. A bunch of utterly pathetic pseudoscience. Here is one page I found, apparently outlining the procedures used in Carnicom's 'proof'... http://www.carnicom.com/flame1.htm That is ridiculous 'proof' of ANYTHING, let alone of 'chemtrails'. Did he take samples at altitude? Get a few miles behind a 'chemtrail' jet and capture atmospheric samples? How about controls? Where does he perform testing on control samples? Pseudoscience. Do yourself a big favor, friend... Educate yourself a little more. Look up the 'Scientific Method' and reevaluate your preaching of these so-called 'evidence' sites. Reevaluate Mr. Carnicom and his 'science' and logic. And perhaps you can educate me in return... be a little more specific with your links. Find me a page that describes scientific test procedures on samples. Anything. I would read it and consider it, I promise. The problem is... despite your references... I still do not see anything of the sort. I apologize if my words come across as demeaning. I can be a bit harsh sometimes, but there is nothing personal here... except for my personal belief in the proper application of science towards separating truth from fiction.

[By Guest 8781] - [On 2005-03-24 01:55:29] - [Rating: +1 (5x) ] - [Reply]

yeah....i'll add this. the chemtrails/chemclouds/dr.death's aerial dull dust IS doing bad things to the earth and it's inhabitants. bird's in the sky? oh yeah...iron birds. and for good measure the SUN is ALWAYS THE TARGET. each surise and sunset is targeted in all areas of the planet. just google List of Dead Microbiologists and THINK. there is a lot of info available to show the population of the world is being doused with something. we are always chemmed and people really do not look up or care. the SUN is so precious and gives us everything we need to synthesize life here. it kills viruses and is our life force. each day the chems are MEANT TO BLOCK THE SUN'S RAYS. the sun is a catalyst to awakening the dna/rna gene sequences which provide all neccesary means to continue living. no...i see quite clearly what is happening. there is much 'scientific' documentation available. i see the results of this chemspraying daily and nightly and only hope someday SAM will come to the peoples side in the battle to bring truth.

[By Guest 5887] - [On 2005-03-24 02:51:03] - [Rating: +10 (10x) ] - [Reply]

To: Guest 2418 Why don't you spend thousands of dollars in jet fuel and to charter a plane and quit your full time job and spend it studying something that people like you will simply try to debunk and call it horse shit. Here is another thing for you, We are studying what we see and what we know about chemtrails and contrails with the equipment we have, e.g. Cameras, The internet, and our brains. The evidence is there something is going on here!. I tell you what, you come up with the money and help prove us wrong by taking air samples and getting behind jets to get samples to prove us wrong. Or you can sit there and talk about doing something that im sure not allot of us have the time or money to do. It?s not like we can go get a Govt. grant to go research this. The skies are changing if you haven?t noticed. Hell, a friend of mine called me today and told me to go walk outside, I found a grid! a damned grid of chemtrails, it looked like pilots were playing tic-tac-toe. And why the hell were the jets flying so low, I know the flight path to Austin Bergstrom airport, I have been watching planes fly in for 6 years and they always come in from one or two paths depending on the weather. You know, with you being such a scientific man you would realize that this is one of the first steps or scientific research... OBSERVATION!

[By A] - [On 2005-03-24 03:07:12] - [Rating: +6 (6x) ] - [Reply]

	The Chemtrails over Little Rock were like the pictures above. If you can't tell Chemtrails by looking, you probably aren't very observant. I don't need any tests to tell me they aren't old fashioned contrails. What I don't know is what is being sprayed. My wife, who also is an ostritch, is having a migrane today. Too bad she can't comprehend the obvious.
	[By Gasping in LR] - [On 2005-03-24 03:45:16] - [Rating: +3 (5x) ] - [Reply]

	maybe there are micro biologists in holland who can investigate this matter while under government protection?
	[By Suzanne] - [On 2005-03-24 04:15:38] - [Rating: +4 (6x) ] - [Reply]

	One of my neighbors plants kept dying in his back yard. He kept finding a white dust on his dead plants, so he sent the sample off to the university to have it tested. It turned out to be barium. They told him that the barium was coming out of the ground...but I dont think thats likely.
	[By Guest 5427] - [On 2005-03-24 05:52:28] - [Rating: +1 (5x) ] - [Reply]

Juan de Fuca strait, West coast Canada. We get sprayed too.I have studied weather in the Coast Guard. Those people that deny this are so arrogant.They try to 'cloud' the argument by saying prove there is something bad in it. These 'contrails' are lingering. Real contrails evaporate. Why the media blackout? How can anyone doubt that there is something being sprayed up in the sky. Get Colloidial Silver it will protect you{hopefully} from the planetary population CULL

[By Guest 5013] - [On 2005-03-24 06:07:18] - [Rating: +6 (6x) ] - [Reply]

Here in South Carolina it's all the time. THE STUFF gets in front of the sun in the evening and cools everything down faster. The first day here was 6-3-99. I'd read an article a week or 2 before about Houston, Tx getting sprayed, it was all new stuff then, so when it started my friend ask me 'man,what are they doing this is crazy' and I told him 'We're getting hit dude that's what's happening. I already read about this'. They gridded our whole area-North to South in the morning then east to west in the afternoon. We watched the whole thing all day. A perfect HUGE crosshatch pattern completely over us and low. Black delta shaped jets screaming all over the area at low altitude, no more than 2-5000 ft just spewing THE stuff out in long lines making the the grid pattern. And jets 'screaming around' is no exaggeration they were low fast and in formations. This was not all the high altitude stuff you see now but low and up-close spraying on a huge scope. When it was over the air was just foul with a heavy salty/oily/fuel smell all night. It was seriously ragged on the breathing. The difference was this was so low that the next morning it was still in the sky but also had drifted down to ground level and settled down on us as fog. It took like 2-3 days for THE STUFF to dissipate from the sky and ground completely that is how massive the operation was. From what I understand this is a way to create a 3D topographical map of the area beneath THE GRID. A commander could see the details of a battlefield before planning strategy using this method. They got a way to send radar down through it (HAARP?) and make a model like an advanced sand table for battle. After THE GRID was sown, the straight line spraying started, along with the X's, O's, etc. and has been going on ever since. On July 5 2000 I looked out my back door and there was a fighter shaped jet behind my house spraying a gigantic O in the sky. I rode 10 miles west to photo it and was still under the 0. It was huge. The wierd thing is he was building it up vertically as if he was doing doughnuts in the sky. It went on for a couple of hours and he just built this giant vertical O in the sky. There's your independence day brother-that is what I thought.. Let's don't even talk about the giant X's we see, Um like Scoob, is it even legal or safe to cross paths and to play Tic-Tac-Toe in the sky with airplanes like that? I've seen a satellite photo where the whole eastern 1/3 of the US from Florida up into Canada and west all the way to Ohio was completely under the trails all at once! I mean from top to bottom and the line west was Ohio from top to bottom. That's pretty massive. If you know anything about them you can catch them in TV shows and commercials all the time now. Plus to the skeptic, if this isn't a new thing and is airline business as usual why werent we having this discussion and these websites in 1995? or 1996? Because in the late 90's something changed and people took notice. Simple as that. Pull out all your old family photos and videos and before 1998 or so and show me the trails in the photos or videos. They don't exist. It's that simple. Here's why it works-when theyre spraying in the daytime most people are inside school or work or inside other places so they don't notice the spraying. When they come out anytime after lunch or especially 5-6pm the sky is full of 'clouds' because THE STUFF has spread out into the 'ribbed' pattern or the 'cheetah' spread pattern and blended together or depending may have combined completely into the 'cloud bank' form. They come out from work school etc. and there are clouds up and then it gets dark. They never notice that the 'clouds' were generated by planes spewing THE STUFF not actual cloud activity. Most people never see the whole picture so they are known as SKEPTICS. What happened to the expression 'A blue day not a cloud in the sky'. We don't get them anymore here. If it's a beautiful blue cloudless day around here it's a sure bet that starting around 8 am that will get changed. It's the most predictable day to expect the spray. Man we get it 3-5 days a week here and I've been watching it for 6 years so I know what I see brother. But, maybe they HAVE to do it too, it could be something that has to be done regardless. It seems obvious alot of it is about cooling the Earth down some but I'm not sure in what context that is. I do know the difference between a contrail which is just frozen water vapor that evaporates behind the plane leaving a tail behind the plane and chemtrails which are 70-100 miles long and DON't evaporate like ice trails should and would.

[By DUDEKHAN] - [On 2005-03-24 06:13:31] - [Rating: +1 (9x) ] - [Reply]

The barium is what makes 'THE STUFF' conductive for radar and radio transmissions. When you see the long trail that branches into a Y shape this is an antennae. Say the Satellites are knocked out. We can't communicate line of sight if a mountain is in the way so you make an antennae with THE STUFF over the mountain and you have communication to the other side. At least that seems to be the leading theory on the barium connection.

[By Guest 6164] - [On 2005-03-24 06:22:44] - [Rating: 0 (6x) ] - [Reply]

	I think the Ozone Layer is more damaged than they are letting on, and they are spraying on bad Ozone days to keep us from going blind.
	[By Guest 1406] - [On 2005-03-24 06:35:35] - [Rating: +7 (7x) ] - [Reply]

It seems to me that there is always some guy who has his head up his butt and clearly can not see what is right in front of his face,because its dark down there. Guest 5887 is just such a person,common sense is not likely to be used in any of his ways of analizing anything,because he is either very afraid of the truth and can not deal with the realality of what he is seeing or is definitely one of those people who likes to confuse people with bullshit , while acting like he knows better about everything.It takes people with an open mind,useing there GOD given common sense to look at the obvious and speak the truth about what is clearly seen.And this world is being trashed daily by the CHEMTRAILS,that are being sprayed daily all around the world,FACT.I have personaly seen the spraying for years now driving back and forth across the USA from coast to coast .I have done as much investigating as possible calling the local air port controlers asking about the heavy spaying of that day and they say they ARE NOT commercial air liners....I don't need to be hit over the head to understand that something is going on in our skies that is not healthy to the the general populace.It has to be a very deliberate act on some one's part.I'm not a conspiracy nut,but I am a realist and beleive my own eyes,when I see what is not natural. It seems like micro biologist on this planet are becoming an endangered species like like the wales & porpoise,they would need protection.

[By Guest 7693] - [On 2005-03-24 07:07:45] - [Rating: +3 (7x) ] - [Reply]

	Hi. They are spraying us in Cyprus too which is a smallish island in the Mediterranean. Heavier on some days than others.
	[By Guest 8363] - [On 2005-03-24 08:42:46] - [Rating: +4 (6x) ] - [Reply]

	Arizona,USA We are being constantly sprayed here too.The hospital emergency rooms fill up with people having breathing problems after several days of spraying.Colodial Silver is a good defense.Prayer helps also.Peace!
	[By Guest 8581] - [On 2005-03-24 10:54:55] - [Rating: +2 (8x) ] - [Reply]

	They spray as down here in New Zealand to .
	[By Guest 8407] - [On 2005-03-24 12:49:27] - [Rating: +6 (8x) ] - [Reply]

	australia is not missing out either...constant observer!
	[By Guest 6944] - [On 2005-03-24 13:59:34] - [Rating: +1 (9x) ] - [Reply]

Whoever is responsnible for the spraying knows that most people never look up and then cant comprehend what they see.if you tell somone 'look at thatup there,man,what are they spraying on us'most people will say'what?it justa plane'and if they do see they say'well dont worry about things you can do nothing about'.shit we are being hosed down with somthing and it seems that 9 of 10 sheepole just dont give a shit

[By Guest 3767] - [On 2005-03-24 14:44:43] - [Rating: +5 (7x) ] - [Reply]

I used to think this was all baloney too until I saw something strange a couple of years ago. At that time I had never heard of 'chemtails.' One early spring day I was on my way to the Post Office. It was one of those gorgeous clear days with a brilliant blue sky and no clouds to be seen anywhere. It was pleasantly warm. When I was waiting to pull out into traffic I noticed a plane flying rather low overhead with a think white 'contrail' trailing far behind it. The strange thing was unlike other 'contrails' it wasn't disappearing -- it was getting thicker. I drove on to the post office and when I got out 20 minutes later the 'contrail' was still there. I went back to the office and an hour later went out for lunch and guess what -- the 'contrail' was STILL there! But this time it had CLOUDS billowing up out of it! They looked like miniature cumulus clouds! I was stunned because I had never seen anything like it. (BTW, I dabble in meteorology). I knew something was not right. When I looked back over my shoulder I saw more of the 'contrails' being made in a cris-cross formation. By 4:00 that afternoon the sky was completely cloudy and there was a strange 'greasy' haze around the sun. The forecast had been 'sunny' all day -- however, we ended up with complete cloud cover and the temperature dropped by several degrees before the sun even went down. About a year later I found out about chemtrails and all of a sudden it all made sense! Then the day before yesterday we were forecasted to get severe thunderstorms. However, the day they were supposed to begin a plane flew in circles around the city all day long. I noticed it had strange 'hoses' or instruments coming out of the back of it. The sun was supposed to have come out and heated the atmosphere and thus destablizing it. That would have lead to storms and rain (we are 6' below normal on rainfall). Instead it remained cloudy and 10 degrees cooler than forecasted. Not only did we not get any storms but we received less than a quarter inch of rain. So are chemtrails a bunch of baloney? No way. I have seen it!

[By Guest 2597] - [On 2005-03-24 15:35:14] - [Rating: +5 (7x) ] - [Reply]

	Just relax. It is just a method of reducing the amount of radiation getting through from our damaged atmosphere. The only reason it is not discussed in the media is due to strict government policies. We don't want social unrest and instability over this issue.
	[By Guest 8389] - [On 2005-03-24 16:08:38] - [Rating: +5 (5x) ] - [Reply]

	Go to http://www.carnicom.com/. If you are not convinced Chemtrails are real then just look up at the sky everyday for one month. You will see the planes and the spray. It has been going on for years here in the USA.
	[By Guest 8129] - [On 2005-03-24 16:32:09] - [Rating: +7 (9x) ] - [Reply]

The only group with the money and ability to keep such spraying events secret is the USAF. The jets that spray are USAF KC130 or 135s, inflight refueling tankers. A fleet of these with inflight refueling capacity can stay aloft for hours, days even. And since that buckegit just flew around the planet imagine a fleet with midair refueling abilities, they could fly till the wings fell off. Maybe some day SAM will bag a few. Fake cloud was used by the USAF to hide attack jets from ground fire in the Balkans. Heavy chemcloud cover is being used to hide military ground work from spy satellites. Can't have the enemy seeing where you are storing your goodies, this is the age of BMD.

[By Guest 7879] - [On 2005-03-24 16:47:26] - [Rating: +5 (5x) ] - [Reply]

	I don't know if http://www.weatherwars.info/ is investigative or apologist but it's a good read and some great pics
	[By S O'B] - [On 2005-03-24 17:04:03] - [Rating: +7 (7x) ] - [Reply]

	chemtrails you sniffling sheepish idiot. wake the fuck up and realize what is going on all over the world look the fuck up!
	[By mankinds demise florida] - [On 2005-03-24 18:21:26] - [Rating: +5 (5x) ] - [Reply]

	here in central florida theyre spraying heaviest before an approaching system. usually at least tree times a month if not more. with most spraying being done out over the gulf of mexico. these daily trade winds here facilitate there goals, whatever they may be!!!!!!!!!
	[By Guest 1342] - [On 2005-03-24 18:26:03] - [Rating: +2 (6x) ] - [Reply]

am i the only one who would like to get my hands on these debunker fucks? how blatently stupid these people must be! isnt proof enough? do these people have any memory? im 35 and i do not ever remeber seeing these trails in my childhood, coming from a line of amateur astronomers , we looked up all the time. so you debunkers sleep well, and know that your trustfull govermebts are keeping good care of you. so with logic in hand ther is only one conclusion, that debunkers are debunkers for a reason!

[By may all you sheep fucking die!] - [On 2005-03-24 18:38:18] - [Rating: +4 (6x) ] - [Reply]

		'Codeword: Cablesplice' from 1993 (google for full text): * 'Although there has always been opposition from groups and individuals with a conservative, isolationist attitude, the recent growth of such opposition, and the ability and organizational success of these groups has raised serious concern in recent years.' * 'Unless such efforts are countered and discredited, the task of creating a unified global government under UN control will be far more difficult.' * 'The ability of opponents to utilize computer bulletin boards to pass information and educate people must be met with an active program of disinformation and attack.' Google 'chemtrails', half a million eye-witnesses, thousands of pictures and hundreds of videos. Yet the disinformation INDUSTRY (which is HUGE and very well funded) still desperately post comments saying it's just normal contrails...
		[By xiando] - [On 2006-01-12 11:18:17] - [Rating: 0 (10x) ] - [Reply]

		THATS CUZ THEY ARE ALL ENSLAVED
		[By Big Bro] - [On 2006-09-06 05:54:55] - [Rating: +4 (4x) ] - [Reply]

I see no one has provided the sort of thing I asked for - web pages detailing scientific PROOF rather than this 'just look up in the skies' rubbish. Hey, if it takes too much money to get up there and sample, well... you 'believers' don't have a very strong case now, do you? The burden of proof is ALWAYS on the prosecution, not the defense. In this particular case, the 'defense' is, of course, people like myself who refuse to take the leap of faith required to assign some sort of intentional human cause to what may in fact be something quite natural. Post all the 'eyewitness' reports you like, but realize that all of that is worth very close to zero when it comes to determining if this is a human phenomena or a natural one. Will keep checking in to see if anyone has something for me to sink my teeth into. Despite what you all obviously think, I'm not here to debunk. I will admit, however, that I view the belief in chemtrails to be symptomatic of some form of paranoia - and those who try to put people like myself down, saying stuff like 'wake the f*** up', well... as far as I'm concerned such statements are only more evidence of a paranoid mindset. Yeah sure, I'm a CIA or NSA agent here to skew the issue... sheesh. I am just a simple citizen who isn't easily swayed by those who don't even understand what the 'scientific method' is, let alone grasp why it is so important to follow.

[By Guest 7068] - [On 2005-03-24 18:45:49] - [Rating: +4 (6x) ] - [Reply]

Right now, 11am, a fleet of KC130s is flying grid patterns over Winnipeg, Canada. A blind man could step outside a take pictures of them. Only an idiot would deny their existance. Why here? Having just traveled 12,000 mile round trip to Europe, the spraying is only happening in specific places. Why? Most places where the spraying is being conducted are all US coalition or NATO partners. Is chemtrailing taking place over China, Russia, India, Brazil, Africa? Inquiring minds want to know.

[By Guest 9597] - [On 2005-03-24 18:46:13] - [Rating: +6 (6x) ] - [Reply]

guest@7068. Planes, trains and busses have one main thing in common. Schedules. Hard to ship freight and people without them. Anyone who takes the time to plot the chemtrailing jets will soon find they follow no schedule. They do arrive at odd times of the day, different days of the week. Someone has a lot of coin to drop with such random mass sheduling. Overhead, as of right now, there are dozens of chemtrails that were not there yesterday. And not in the concentration they are up there right now.

[By Guest 9597] - [On 2005-03-24 18:58:33] - [Rating: +5 (7x) ] - [Reply]

This is for Guest 7068. Question: please give your best explanation for eyewitness reports (3 separate ones of my own) of a high altitude aircraft laying down an enduring trail that recedes back to the horizon (50 - 100 miles), but while overhead, suddenly stops emitting the wide thick trail, and continues flying on with a short, quickly disappearing trail -- a condensation trail, obviously? Poor 7068 is backed into a corner, forced to either wake up to chemtrails, label me a liar (sorry, I'm not), or make up an absurd explanation like 'the pilot turned off his jet engines for a moment (basically, a suicide move), or the atmosphere had a huge and sudden difference in humidity, temperature, or pressure at that point. Nope; bifurcations of that sort cannot be maintained along narrow planes of interaction without outside forces -- mixing always occurs, and occurs more quickly the greater the difference between the 'different' bodies of air. Look, we know the CIA pays well, so why don't you just call it a day and bother some other blog -- there are plenty more 'conspiracy nut' blogs like this one saying crazy, but unfortunately true, things.

[By Live Free or Diebold] - [On 2005-03-24 19:52:36] - [Rating: +3 (5x) ] - [Reply]

I live on an Air Force base. I see this stuff all the time, and people are asleep. Whenever I travel I look at the sky, and it's obvious this is not normal. It's happening all over. I don't remember this from when I was a kid. We looked to the sky all the time. This cannot be right. There is also the smell. Only a moron could ignore the stench from this stuff wafting down at night. That's when I notice it the most. Wake up people, this is being done TO us not FOR us.

[By Guest 2543] - [On 2005-03-24 19:56:29] - [Rating: +5 (5x) ] - [Reply]

Guest 9597... What makes you think I have any explanation? I am not discounting the eyewitness 'testimony' - all I keep saying (and obviously am not being heard by those here) is that eyewitness reports are notoriously unreliable as well as prone to misinterpretation. Yes, there is something to study... so go study it!! Someone... Anyone... I have neither the time nor the interest to fund a study, perform the work... That is the responsibility of those who wish to convince the rest of us 'unbelievers' that something is actually going on. I look up in the sky quite often - I live near NYC and therefore I am in prime viewing area for overseas flights on their way to the interior of the US. Such jets are still at cruising altitude and therefore leave many contrails. Yes, sometimes they do appear to be parallel and I do understand where people use the term 'grid' to describe... but to my eye, I've never ever seen anything that makes me think 'wow... that sure is odd looking'. Maybe they just don't spray here, I dunno. Slander my words all you like. Call me names, call me a 'CIA agent' if that makes you feel better. All I'm asking for is something I can study and try to verify for myself - something that does NOT involve photographic or visual evidence. I'm here because I'm curious. Obviously if 'chemtrails' are being sprayed over us, then that's something worth investigating. So... investigate!! Clifford Carnicom might be a hero to you, but to me, from what I've read on his site, he's nothing more than a bad scientist (if I can even call him a scientist at all). I find it rather funny that you try to put people like me (the so-called 'debunkers') down, and yet when I question any of this, you then claim that I'm a 'disinformation agent' or some other such rubbish. Lets stop throwing childish, paranoid accusations around and get to the heart of the matter... if you can, that is. Has there been any sort of study of flight schedules versus eyewitness reports? Again... good idea, but has anyone undertaken such a task? Link?

[By Guest 7924] - [On 2005-03-24 20:19:50] - [Rating: +6 (8x) ] - [Reply]

	glglglglglglglglglglg topic glglglglglglg no real contribution to this topic glglglglglgl i am ga glidingpilot make noooooooooo chemtrails , only on the ground, when full of beer and puke a shit outta me glglglglgl
	[By Guest 08/15] - [On 2005-03-24 20:46:14] - [Rating: +5 (5x) ] - [Reply]

Guest7924. Everyone has their favorite save the world theory on chemtrails. Being a realist, I'm too practical. The jets were identified to me, by an eyewitness, as USAF KC130s. This witness spent twenty years scoping jet engines on radars up on the DEW Line. A representitive of Transport Canada confirmed there are lots of KC130 overflights. Fake cloud was used extensivly by the USAF over Kosovo to hide their attack jets from ground fire. Turns out the Serbs have a real army. There is massive military ground work going on including movement, and realignment of equiptment. All this is visible from space, ie spysatellites, hence the need to create fake cloud. Satellites must be over a target to see it.

[By Guest 8931] - [On 2005-03-24 22:01:18] - [Rating: +4 (6x) ] - [Reply]

To 9597. If you want a scientific study go to www.rense.com and do a search on Chemtrails and you will then know much more on the subject than you do now. For instance you will know the chemical components found in the spray. One of the components is a toxic substance called Barium. On the other hand if you want to be the center of attention take a shot at stand-up comedy or do a gig on American Idol.

[By Guest 8594] - [On 2005-03-24 22:08:15] - [Rating: +5 (5x) ] - [Reply]

	There were no chemtrails till the 80s, watch red dawn the movie, you can see them in the film. chemtrails aint real, just go about your life, and dont worry about anything. WE WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU!!!!!
	[By Guest 6465] - [On 2005-03-24 22:19:30] - [Rating: +6 (6x) ] - [Reply]

Excuse me 9597 this post was meant for 7924. If you want a scientific study go to www.rense.com and do a search on Chemtrails and you will then know much more on the subject than you do now. For instance you will know the chemical components found in the spray. One of the components is a toxic substance called Barium. On the other hand if you want to be the center of attention take a shot at stand-up comedy or do a gig on American Idol.

[By Guest 6387] - [On 2005-03-24 22:22:26] - [Rating: +5 (5x) ] - [Reply]

How the heck do you think I found this page in the first place? Thru Rense's site of course. I have been visting Jeff's site for years now, and I read much of what is posted there. Don't buy into a lot of the Chicken Little crap there (the sky is falling, won't someone save us from ourselves?)... But... I still visit daily. :-) I'm not lying when I say I'm curious about a lot of things the mainstream considers 'odd' or not worthy of study - but I'm also not lying when I say I am very demanding about what constitutes 'proof'... You people aren't really giving me anything here. Just the same old routine - refer me to Rense or Carnicom... then call me names... tell me I'm a stand-up comic or a moron... accuse me of being a disinformation agent sent here by the US Government (because this is a VERY dangerous website to 'them' LOL)... I can keep patiently waiting for someone to give me something that makes me say 'Aha!' or 'Wow, that IS rather interesting'... where is it? You've got a willing subject here, ready to read, think, analyze and critique (or commend) the scientific analysis of these so-called 'chemtrails'... ...and none of you can provide me with anything better than 'Go to Rense or Carnicom and you'll know much more...' This is like a game of pass the buck - you all believe, but you have nothing to offer besides your opinions and rather useless (to me) eyewitness reports. A smell? In the air? Gee, it HAD to come from those nasty chemtrails!! LOL If this is the best y'all can do... ya gotta do better. Much better.

[By Guest 3149] - [On 2005-03-24 23:49:31] - [Rating: +3 (5x) ] - [Reply]

You know, humans used to think a solar eclipse was the handiwork of the Gods, sending us a message or a warning. Of course, centuries later we understand the universe much better and know that an eclipse is simply a natural effect of the orbital mechanics of conjoined planetary bodies (such as our Earth and Moon system). And how did we figure that out? By the application of science. We finally realized the Sun was NOT revolving around Earth, and that the truth was exactly the opposite of what had been believed. We began to understand gravity, astrophysics, etc. Finally, we understood the truth of the matter. It only took us thousands of years... LOL How did early man go wrong? Simple - they observed... and then misinterpreted what they saw. Will the truth behind chemtrails someday be discovered to be something completely different from what y'all believe it to be? Similar to eclipses? And the bigger question is... does anyone care about me and my analogies? LOL No... of course you don't. You want me to just go away... admit it. hehe

[By Guest 2665] - [On 2005-03-25 00:30:21] - [Rating: +6 (8x) ] - [Reply]

The powers that be (those spraying the sky) are counting on the ignorant not caring and the doubters to need 'scientific proof' to believe. Really smart people know that science is not foolproof either. Money and possession of airplanes is a big hurdle to overcome to satisfy those that want 'scientific proof'. Once again, the powers that be know they can get away with just about anything they want with no resistance from the masses. But don't believe me. Time will tell.

[By Guest 2138] - [On 2005-03-25 01:12:08] - [Rating: +6 (6x) ] - [Reply]

I have a real good idea for 9597,beleive what you want to beleive.You don't have the mind to understand what is so obvious to the rest of us.Its not my job,or anyone elses job to take you to school on this subject, when all you seem to want to do is play mind games . Why do you need the rest of us to show you anything, anyway??you don't respond with any kind of inteligent answer to anything said,other than your same old mindless retort.You won't be convenced of any truth on the subject,unless a chemtrail jet drops on your head ,so you're really not worth the time to debate with unless,YOU, can show some inteligence on this subject and bring something to the party.........

[By Guest 2633] - [On 2005-03-25 01:43:30] - [Rating: +1 (7x) ] - [Reply]

	all you idiots can whine about this...Aerosol Spraying is fact. carnicom and all the people making websites have really no clue as to whats going on. ITS FACT THAT SPRAYING IS OCCURING. ITS ADDMITED. The ONLY thing still left to question is why
	[By Guest 1116] - [On 2005-03-25 01:45:32] - [Rating: +3 (5x) ] - [Reply]

	I live in Houston. There are clear blue skies, then lines of trails formed by high-altitude airplanes, in a perfect grid pattern; it spreads out and leaves a translucent cover. The next day there will be no planes, and clear blue sky. It is not a natural phenomenon; stay hydrated and keep a good alkaline balance.
	[By Guest 2649] - [On 2005-03-25 02:33:04] - [Rating: 0 (8x) ] - [Reply]

I have lived next to tyndall afb in florida 46 years and I know what a contrail looks like.An ariplane dont make a thick white smokey trial 50 miles long whitout crashing somwhere.These aircraft fly at different altitudes regardless of the normal air force traffic and traing exercices The spraying always happens before an approching front or after a day of really clear sky.If the trails are made in the morning the sky will be slick cloudy by 3 in the afternoon also with rings around the sun andthe moon that nightI dont know what it is that is being pumped out of those planes ,but I know that it is not natural and it scares the hell out of me. A person does not have to be a 'beleiver' or a skeptic to pull thier head out of the sand and look at the very large aircraft playing X's and O's over thier heads.

[By Guest 1948] - [On 2005-03-25 03:35:27] - [Rating: +4 (4x) ] - [Reply]

The Chemtrails over Little Rock were like the pictures above. If you can't tell Chemtrails by looking, you probably aren't very observant. I don't need any tests to tell me they aren't old fashioned contrails. What I don't know is what is being sprayed. My wife, who also is an ostritch, is having a migrane today. Too bad she can't comprehend the obvious. Posted by Gasping in LR on 2005-03-24 03:45:16 I know it's a bit off-topic, but did that guy say he's married to a bird??

[By WanderingStar] - [On 2005-03-25 11:58:03] - [Rating: +2 (4x) ] - [Reply]

If the planes that spray were doing it during the day one might conclude it's a save the planet from the sun game, except when the planes show up at night, especially clear nights and within hours the sky is hazed out. I wasn't aware moon-light rays were harmful. Most spraying takes place in and around military installations. Odd, eh. Not over the thawing tundra. Not over the melting polar icecaps, not over impoverished third world countries. Just over NATO countries and their various allies and protectorates.

[By Guest 2743] - [On 2005-03-25 19:30:49] - [Rating: 0 (8x) ] - [Reply]

	does any one here have an opinion as to what is being sprayed and why?
	[By Guest 7178] - [On 2005-03-26 18:50:31] - [Rating: +4 (4x) ] - [Reply]

	It sure is happening down under. New Zealanders wishing to report and discuss local chemtrail activity can do so here: https://www.mysteriousnewzealand.co.nz/forums/
	[By Guest 5582] - [On 2005-03-27 06:43:13] - [Rating: +4 (6x) ] - [Reply]

Guest7178. It's supposedly Barium Oxide used to propigate or mirror satellite radar signals. Or it can be Barium Hydroxdide, a compound capabile of absorbing 2000x its mass in water. My guess, based on my observations, is that thin wispy cloud presents a mirror like environment so that spy satellites coming over the horizon cannot see the ground due to the parabolic refletion. Hard to direct a satellite to a target if you can't see the ground. The thick heavy cloud they make at times is to hide ground work that is being conducted by the military or as in the case where I live civilian defense contractors owned by the Carlyle Group. They buy up defense contractors, expand them and then tell the PUBLIC a year after the deal is done and the building is built. These observations are based on logic as to when the planes show up, what they spray, and how long they stick around. Does anyone have contacts in non NATO or US Allied countries to see if spraying is being done in their air space? Answering this question will shed more light on who is behind the chemtrailing. Mind you the USAF KC130 and 135s kinda give it away. The biggest laugh I had was that the spraying is TerraForming to make the earth's environmnt more, or less, habitable for alien visitors, depending on which conspiracy camp one might belong to.

[By Guest 3421] - [On 2005-03-27 18:25:32] - [Rating: +6 (6x) ] - [Reply]

	Here in middle Georgia, have observed streaks of expanding chemtrails. On one ocassion, it looked as if there were TWO suns in the sky -- the regular solar disk and nearby what appeared as the sun behind clouds (chemtrail clouds.) It must have been some sort of sun reflection upon the chemtrails due to their angular position.
	[By Guest 2326] - [On 2005-03-28 08:58:24] - [Rating: +3 (5x) ] - [Reply]

	Was corresponding with someone I went to school with who happens to be a scientist at NASA. When I asked him about chemtrails, he dropped me like a stone. I definitely think they are in on it.
	[By Guest 6948] - [On 2005-03-31 12:36:10] - [Rating: +6 (10x) ] - [Reply]

	Have you guys seen http://www.bariumblues.com, http://www.infowars.com (New USA Martial Law Nazi Dissent Video) http://www.911exposed.com http://www.linktoit.com http://www.cremationofcare.com htttp://www.threeworldwars.com
	[By Guest 7164] - [On 2005-04-02 21:46:54] - [Rating: +4 (4x) ] - [Reply]

Someone mentioned something about 'Hey, if it takes too much money to get up there and sample, well... you 'believers' don't have a very strong case now, do you?' You know, we shouldn't have to be the ones who do that sort of thing. In fact, we shouldn't have to worry about any of this at all. Why should we spend God only knows how much money on this if they aren't going to stop spraying? Just my $0.02.

[By Guest 1415] - [On 2005-04-11 15:08:44] - [Rating: +3 (5x) ] - [Reply]

	chemtrails schmemtrails.........
	[By Guest 7914] - [On 2005-04-11 15:47:41] - [Rating: +3 (5x) ] - [Reply]

	These THINGS are disgusteing & killing us. EVERYONE LETS DO SOMETHING...
	[By Guest 7529] - [On 2005-04-11 22:56:18] - [Rating: +1 (5x) ] - [Reply]

	these 'things' are not disgusting... they're nice to look at and won't kill you... are you dead yet??? think not... so shut up about the nice a nice chemtrails....
	[By Guest 8705] - [On 2005-04-12 14:23:51] - [Rating: +4 (4x) ] - [Reply]

I've noticed the planes and they often fly (line astern formation) within 15-20 miles of each other. Its a plane every few minutes followed by another travelling the same heading. There are also plane that then travel in a perpendicular direction at an altitude difference of about 600 ft. After clear days with heavy spraying, the next day will have hazy clouds all over the sky, billowing their contents into other 'clouds' of 'chemtrails' creating wavy, ugly looking mist for all but the uninformed to see. 'How many clouds do you see in blueish-white sky?' answer: 'None. Those arn't clouds- they're chemtrails!' I live in Ottawa, the capital of Canada and see these jsets all the time. I enjoy looking at them through my binoculars. :)

[By Not a nutcase] - [On 2005-04-13 17:52:46] - [Rating: +4 (6x) ] - [Reply]

To all you debunkers, Chemtrails are very real. They spray over Washington DC daily. Some days they are used for cloud seeding to make rain, on heavy UV days they provide a thick sunscreen, still other days we witness 'maintenance sprayers' that leave shorter trails that quickly dissipate. These are used to provide a thinner sunscreen to block lower UV ray levels. There is always heavy spraying during the hour before sunset - hundreds of jets flying east/west, following the sun. Global Warming is here people, the powers that be are just trying to buy time.

[By Guest 1945] - [On 2005-04-13 18:03:40] - [Rating: +3 (5x) ] - [Reply]

Contrails and aviation-induced cirrusclouds (aviationsmog) are bad enough, without any conspiracy-theories. I have made pictures of contrails and aviation-cirrus from 1995 until today. Contrails are bad news, also because they are being ignored by politicians, meteorologists and journalistst alike. That's the real conspiracy. Aviation is the sacred cow of our destructive ecoonomy. Please have a look at www.contrails.nl

[By Guest 9503] - [On 2005-04-21 14:40:33] - [Rating: +4 (4x) ] - [Reply]

This forum seems not to be active anymore. Does this mean that every one agrees whith guest 9503 or that nobody knows any argument for the existence of chemtrails anymore? It is true that there are a lot of studies done to the many bad substances in aviation exhausts. And that is really bad enough. But for me this does not explain the very irregular patern in flight intensity. I live in Holland very near to the mainport Schiphol. There are days that I only see the normal air trafic that does not have a very great altitude without trails. Mostly no more than one or to airplanes visible in the same moment. You can hear them very well. At other days there are times I observe more than four silent white planes sometimes in formation leaving long expanding trails that form a grid. There has been a day that I counted 34 in half an our. I cannot immagine that there are at once so many flights acros Amsterdam that will skip Schiphol. Except for the military. But why would they need so many exercises? Of cause I would like more real scientific resaerch to this fenomenon but even direct tests of the exhaust will not prove anything in itself because if you like you can explain that the components found could be from normal aviation smog. So I definitely need an explanation of the flightpatern irragularities and the strange silent white planes which I cannot track. For that time chemtrails are for me the most probable explanation. Especialy because I always experience and observe (in the school where I am a teacher) bad health effects the day after havy trail and cloud formation. But I am still open to other explanations. So maybe guest 9503 or anyone else can give a reaction to this question.

[By Guest 36603] - [On 2006-10-08 23:25:23] - [Rating: +4 (6x) ] - [Reply]

The elephant in the room syndrome. Politicians will not dabble in the issue. Science is owned by business at the behest of Big Gov't and juicy contracts. THE PUBLIC HAVE NO WHERE TO GO. Look up,if in affected areas and you will see Chemtrails. Debunkers are obvious by their total naivety on the issue.They are probably waiting for a iodine pill or similar to cure them of effects of trails for being 'good'. Ha bloody Ha!!

[By Guest 95382] - [On 2008-02-22 07:44:05] - [Rating: +1 (1x) ] - [Reply]

Nasa has a patent for 'barium clouds'. It's on google search. And for some of the reasons, google search 'u.s. air force own weather in 2025'. I think someone might have said this, but I don't think I saw NASA barium cloud on here. it's all there. tell the debunkers to look these up, shut their yap, read, and think. Unless they have reservations for an underground bunker, they should be concerned about what's in the air! This is beyond common sense!

[By Guest 38792] - [On 2009-04-24 12:54:30] - [Rating: -1 (1x) ] - [Reply]

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